“Where Have You Been, My Blue-Eyed Son?” Fabian Family Secrets, Faux-Labor, P.I.E, & the Child Catchers

horsley map

One premise of the information below is that the Fabian Society is behind the various Labor movements in Britain and that it conceals an elitist, capitalist interest. This is something I can vouch for from direct experience: I grew up in a wealthy Socialist family (we were called “champagne socialists”) who were actively involved in local (and I am slowly discovering global) politics, seeming reformist and New Left movements such as the CND party, and with sometimes obvious sometimes less so ties to Fabian Society (my grandfather went to Oxford, became District Officer in Nigeria in the 1920s, started a dairy business in 1937, and helped found the FS in his area in 1943, and CND – Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament – in the 1950s).

This is the only reason I have found myself researching all of this, and why this blog is going to return to the field of “paranoid awareness” and “conspiracy”—because it turns out that this is my background.

On my last post, I mentioned exploring this material elsewhere and invited anyone who was interested to email me. No one did. In comparison to the sizeable number of requests I got for The Counselor piece, not a single person was interested. I found this so infuriating that I didn’t want to post anything more at the blog, ever again. But why have a blog if not to use it?

The things I am uncovering about my past are truly shocking and they have implications for everyone who grew up in the UK and beyond. Whatever the nature of this vast, generational conspiracy is, to begin to see its workings up close and personal, first-hand and from the inside, is totally incomparable to simply reading about them in David Icke or Noam Chomsky books, watching documentaries on YouTube, or smoking a doobie and chatting on Facebook about “Chapel Perilous.” Incomparable.

I have covered a page with names and groups and how they are linked, starting with my own family circle (paternal grandfather), and it has ended up with many of the usual suspects (from my past two decades of conspiracy-research) within 2 or 3 degrees of separation of my family (for example, I am connected circumstantially to Aleister Crowley by two degrees via three different routes, i.e., people in my past). All of this is both enlightening and potentially crazy-making. I am on the verge of becoming one of the those conspiracy-nuts with newspaper clips and sticky papers all over the walls. Except I am not driven to find out what’s going on “out there” but what happened to me, in here, what were the circumstances, the nature, and the context of my own psychic damage? To do that traditionally entails going back to the ancestors, particularly (for a male child) the paternal grandfather. And going back to the paternal grandfather for me means going back to the Fabian Society.

So that’s where I will begin. I can’t vouch for the source of this information; the site has a political slant to it and it may be aligned with so-called “right-wing” points of view (i.e., on immigration). I don’t really care what their specific political affiliation is because any affiliation at all is too much, in my view. But all I can go on is the cogency of the presentation and how well-referenced the facts being offered up are, and this seems like a pretty well-researched site. The full article is here. In between the quotes is my own commentary in bold.

The Fabian Society currently describes itself as a “think-tank.” However, as a think-tank operating within the Labour Party the Society is, by definition, a body of experts providing advice and ideas on specific issues which are then implemented as Labour Party policy.

[T]he relationship between the Fabian Society and the Labour Party was not a purely intellectual one, but very much physical, given that Fabians literally wrote Labour’s policy statements, manifestos and party programmes.

  • The Fabian Society has 7000 members 80 per cent (5,600) of whom are members of the Labour Party. This amounts to about 3 per cent of the general Labour Party membership (about 190,000 in 2010).
  • The Fabian percentage increases dramatically in the higher reaches of the Labour Party. From inception, Labour candidates standing for parliament included a fair number of Fabian Society members and the Society has retained a large proportion – about 50 percent – among Labour candidates since the 1940s.
  • In 1945, 393 Labour candidates were elected to Parliament, out of whom 229 were Fabian Society members.
  • In 1997, 418 Labour candidates were elected, out of whom 200 were Fabian Society members.
  • By the time we come to the Labour Party leadership, the proportion of Fabians comes close to 100 per cent.

Bernard Shaw declared the aim of Fabian educational reform as entailing the creation of a Minister for Education, with “control over the whole educational system, from the elementary school to the University, and over all educational endowments” (Shaw, “Educational Reform,” 1889).

This was accomplished through a wide range of interconnected organisations, societies and movements:

  • Education: councils like the London County Council, university societies and schools like the London School of Economics, Imperial College and London University.
  • Culture: the New Age movement, the Central School of Arts and Crafts, the Leeds Arts Club, the Fabian Arts Group and the Stage Society.
  • Economy: the London School of Economics, the Royal Economic Society, the National Institute of Economic and Social Research (NIESR).
  • Law: the Haldane Society (named after Fabian Society member Lord Haldane).
  • Medicine: the Socialist Medical League.
  • Religion: the Labour (later Socialist) Church movement, the Christian Socialist Crusade, the Christian Socialist League, the Christian Socialist Movement, etc.

Shaw expressed his wish to make the Fabians “the Jesuits of Socialism” (Martin, p. 16), while H G Wells who was number four on the Fabian Executive (after Webb, Pease and Shaw) proposed to turn the whole Society into a ruling order similar to the “Samurai” in his A Modern Utopia.



The Fabian Window was commissioned by Shaw in 1910 and is currently located at the London School of Economics. [On it is the last line from a quatrain by the medieval Iranian poet Omar Khayyam:] “Remould it [the World] nearer to the heart’s desire.” [The full quatrain] reads: “Dear love, couldst thou and I with fate conspire/To grasp this sorry scheme of things entire,/Would we not shatter it to bits, and then/Remould it nearer to the heart’s desire!”

[T]he Society’s Iranian logo may well be a hidden reference to the reconstruction of the world order in line with international oil interests. The Anglo-Iranian Oil Company (later British Petroleum) was among the corporate members of the Royal Institute of International Affairs a.k.a. Chatham House (King-Hall, p. 140), an organisation co-founded by members of the Fabian Society and the Society has retained close links to oil interests. . . .

That the Fabians consciously sought the company, collaboration and support of the wealthy and powerful is evident from Fabian writings such as Beatrice Webb’s Our Partnership, which abound in references to “catching millionaires,” “wire-pulling,” “moving all the forces we have control over,” while at the same time taking care to “appear disinterested” and claiming to be “humble folk whom nobody suspects of power” (Webb, 1948) The leading elements of liberal capitalism – the big businessmen, industrialists and bankers – who had amassed great wealth in the wake of the industrial revolution, were no selfless philanthropists. They aimed to strengthen their own position of power and influence by two means: (1) by monopolising finance, economy and politics; and (2) by controlling the growing urban working class.

The first aim was to be achieved by the centralisation of capital, means of production, etc. The second was to be gained through organising the workers and through promises of a larger share in resources. These aims coincided with those of the Socialist movement of which the Fabians aimed to become the leading element.

As pointed out by H. G. Wells, big business was by no means antipathetic to Communism as “the larger big business grows the more it approximates to Collectivism” (Wells, p. 100)

Indeed, we find that the core of Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels’ Manifesto of the Communist Party (1848) consisted of monopolistic capitalist policies like the centralisation of capital and the organisation of workers. . .

The business my grandfather started as a dairy, which with the help of my father became a multinational food corporation, thereby monopolizing food production in Britain. Its primary early alliances were with Fox’s Biscuits, Rowntree Mackintosh (chocolate manufacturers), and Marks & Spencers (run by active Zionists, the Sieff family).

The Fabian Society not only adopted Marx and Engels’ policies but was closely connected with the same kind of interests. . . .

Hubert Bland, a bank-employee-turned-journalist, worked for the London Sunday Chronicle, a paper owned by newspaper magnate Edward Hulton, formerly of the Liberal Manchester Guardian. Bland was a co-founder of the Fabian Society in 1884 and became a member of its executive and its long-serving treasurer. He also recruited his friend and fellow journalist Bernard Shaw.

Hulton’s son, also Edward Hulton, was on the 1941 Committee with David Astor (see below), Tom Driberg (friend of Crowley) and Sir Richard Acland, a close associate of my grandfather.

Tellingly, the Fabians were also adept at securing a higher social and financial position for themselves – which shows that the “equitable share of natural and acquired advantages” and the “complete substitution of public property for private property” preached in the Fabian Basis and elsewhere were not regarded by Fabians as binding on themselves.

Exact match for the Horsley clan.

Shaw’s friend and fellow Fabian Society leader Sidney Webb married Beatrice, daughter of Richard Potter, a wealthy financier with international connections who served as chairman of the Great Western and Grand Trunk Railways of England and Canada.  Beatrice was also a close friend of Rothschild associate and Conservative Prime Minister Arthur Balfour.

Rothschild and Balfour were founding members of the Round Table, of which my grandfather was reputedly one of the two leading financial backers in Britain, during the 30s, 40s, & 50s.

The Great Western Railways (GWR) supported Webb’s fledgling London School of Economics by booking courses for members of its staff at the school and Webb also used his wife’s other connections to further his Fabian agendas.

Shaw was employed by millionaire William Waldorf (later Lord) Astor, owner of the Pall Mall Gazette, and became a close friend of the latter’s son (and Milner Group leader) Waldorf and his wife Nancy. Interviews with both Shaw and Webb promoting Socialist ideas were published by the Pall Mall and St. James’s Gazettes.

Afore-mentioned David Astor, alleged MI6 agent and editor of the UK paper The Observer, was the grandson of William Waldorf (the first). He lobbied for the release of Myra Hindley in the 1970s along with Lord Longford. My grandfather visited Hindley in jail and my brother wrote letters to her.

[B]oth Karl Marx and the Fabian Society were bankrolled by industrial interests with links to the left-wing Manchester School and the media world.

. . . .

Lord Rothschild himself was personally involved, with Sidney Webb, in the restructuring of the University of London into which the Fabians’ London School of Economics (LSE) was incorporated in 1898. He also provided funds for the LSE and served as its third president, after his relative Lord Rosebery (Webb, pp. 182, 214).

Archibald Primrose, Earl of Rosebery, British Prime Minister 1894-95. The name “Rosebery” is a Scottish peerage (title) but apparently Rosebery is a variant of the place name Roseberry, an area of the Yorkshire Moors inhabited since prehistoric times. The name is accordingly first found in Yorkshire where they held a family seat as Lords of the Manor. When I was nineteen, after coming into my family inheritance, my sister and I bought a house on a Rosebery Road, in Brixton, within eye-distance of Brixton prison. We lived there for one year before selling.

London School of Economics is connected to not just the various Fabian groups but also to Gay Liberation and P.I.E. (the Pedophilia Information Exchange, a faction within the Labor government in the 1970s, more on which later; wiki page here).

The Fabian Society and the Rowntree Clan. Another Fabian line of connection with industrial interests were the chocolate manufacturers Rowntree’s. The company’s head Joseph Rowntree, who had founded various charitable trusts in 1904 . . . Rowntree trusts have funded Fabian projects ever since.

Because of the alliance between Northern Dairies and Rowntree Macintosh, our house (until our parents split) was always full of RM chocolate products, and we even got to visit the RM chocolate factory. One of the books I grew up on was Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, by Roald Dahl (with whom I corresponded briefly as a child). Willy Wonka, as illustrated in the book and later depicted in the movies, wears a top hat and a purple jacket, a bit like the infamous Child-Catcher from Chitty Chitty Bang Bang (based on the book by MI5 agent Ian Fleming, and probably the movie the impressed me most strongly in my childhood). More recently, of course, the CC has been compared to Jimmy Savile. Savile’s predations have been recently linked to those of an ice-cream manufacturer and retailer, Peter Jaconelli, in Scarborough (Yorkshire), a town I visited as a child. Northern Dairies had its own ice cream products and also provided milk to other companies. As an adolescent, we lived opposite a famous ice cream shop, called Burgesses. The link between ice cream, chocolate, and predatory pedophile rings would seem then to pertain not only to works of popular (children’s) fiction . . . .

willy wonka


rbrand_gl_3aug10_pa_592x888 Sebastian_Horsley__23861csnn0845c280_385976a


Another Rockefeller outfit bankrolling Fabian projects was the International Monetary Fund (IMF), established in 1944 along with the World Bank. . . . The IMF provided several loans to Labour (Fabian) governments:

  • $250 million to the Attlee Government in 1947 (Martin, p. 77);
  • $1 billion to the Wilson Government in 1969 (Martin, p. 109);
  • $4 billion to the second Wilson Government in 1976 (Stone-Lee, 2005).

Another important loan of $4.34 billion was negotiated in 1946 by Fabian economist John Maynard Keynes and facilitated by his friend and collaborator Harry Dexter White who operated within the US Treasury as well as the IMF. All these loans were organised under successive Fabian Chancellors Hugh Dalton, Roy Jenkins and Denis Healey.

John Maynard Keynes is linked directly to two close associates of my grandfather, including Baron Boyd Orr, whom my grandfather met in the USSR in the 1950s. Boyd Orr was the first Director-General of the United Nations Food and Agriculture Organization and the co-founder and first President (1960–1971) of the World Academy of Art and Science. He gave an address to the Fabian society on “food policy” in 1940, three years after my grandfather founded his company.

Hugh Dalton is mentioned in The Dust Has Never Settled by Robin Bryans (a very oblique expose on government corruption, occult secret societies, and child abuse), with reference to his title as “the Minister of Economic Warfare,” as a possible procurer of children for sexual use (hard to tell with Bryans’ cryptic phrasings). Roy Jenkins is a lot easier to nail down. Here are some tidbits from a post at the Rigorous Intuition forum:

PIE was born in part from the reforms of Harold Wilson’s home secretary, Roy Jenkins [Labour], who decriminalised homosexual acts between men aged 21 and over. “[Jenkins] created within the Home Office an atmosphere of excitement around liberal reform,” [PIE Chair] O’Carroll said. They felt a moment was coming when their desire for “mutual and loving relationships” between adults and children would shame them no more. But drumming up members was hard because so few publications would take their adverts and PIE sought affiliation with NCCL “to create a greater weight of opinion by joining together in a common cause,” O’Carroll said. “It got me a platform or two.”

Jenkins replied to public criticism by asserting that the so-called permissive society was in reality the civilised society. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Jenkins

The political views of Jenkins were unpopular in the Labour Party and in 1981 he joined Shirley Williams, David Owen and William Rodgers in setting up the Social Democratic Party (SDP). Jenkins became leader of the new party and in 1982 he returned to the House of Commons as MP for Glasgow Hillhead. . . . After the election Jenkins resigned as leader and was replaced by David Owen. http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/PRjenkinsR.htm

This being the same David Owen who gave Jimmy Savile the keys to Broadmoor, so he could have his way with the inmates there.

Back to the anti-Fabian tract:

The Fabian Society had developed an obsession with economics in the very first months and years of its existence, when its members met regularly to study and discuss Karl Marx and his economic theories. This obsession led to the Fabians’ creation of institutions like the British Economic Association (later Royal Economic Society) and, in particular, the London School of Economics (LSE). The Fabians’ strange interest was motivated by two things. First, they could use economic theories as a “scientific” backing for their Socialist ideology just as Marx had done before them. Second, through educational institutions teaching Fabian economics, they consciously sought to create whole generations of professional economists – a new ruling class – who, working as civil servants and other government officials, would implement Fabian policies (M. Cole, p. 88).

I believe something similar was/is occurring in terms of training care home workers and conducting psychological/psychiatric “research,” both involving the sexual use of children, and that both psychiatric institutions and care homes (as well as borstals, prisons, hospitals, and the like) may be being used, and in some cases were even established, specifically for these purposes. I also think this is perhaps the most deeply hidden layer of the Fabian onion: (something like) evolutionary/spiritual engineering via the sexual “liberation” of children. (Whitley Strieber also graduated from the LSE.)

For example (back to original source):

Economic and Social Research Council (ESRC). Founded in 1965 under the government of former Fabian Society chairman Harold Wilson and having as chief executive leading Fabian Michael (later Lord) Young, who alone was responsible for the creation of over 60 like-minded organisations. The ESRC was originally known as Social Science Research Council (SSRC) and was clearly a clone of the US organisation of the same name.

This was how I found the anti-Fabian article to begin with, while researching information at the afore-cited RI thread (post): 

These documents are held at London University, London School of Economics Library, Archives Division . . .

Outline proposals for development of Albany Trust, 1967-1978.

Study of Human Sexuality in Britain: proposals for establishing an institute of social behaviour (including letter from Brian Abel-Smith).

Proposal to SSRC [Social Science Research Council] concerning Dr. J.H.Gagnon.

The Albany Trust is generally associated with Left-leaning Gay activism, but it may have been funding the Right too:

Elm Guest House [a now notorious child brothel in Barnes, London]:

This image from the ‘Mary Moss Images’ shows a newsletter from CHE, which appears to implicate the Conservative Group for Homosexual Equality in the promotion of the Elm Guest House and handwritten note above which talks of a ‘Dutch Adventure’ which could be construed as a reference, in the circumstances, of child sex tourism.

The Albany Trust was founded the same year I was born, the year homosexuality was legalized. It was founded in the apartment of one of my grandfather’s close friends, J.B. Priestley, chairman of the afore-mentioned 1941 Committee, and with whom my grandfather started the CND party. 

This is just an opening introduction, a preliminary glimpse into the can of vipers that is, or appears to be, my own personal history. If you think it’s just my story, however, think again.

Thanks for reading, and please don’t be afraid to comment (or not to)!




42 thoughts on ““Where Have You Been, My Blue-Eyed Son?” Fabian Family Secrets, Faux-Labor, P.I.E, & the Child Catchers

  1. I’d be more interested if you got more into those paranoid awareness topics again.

    Roald Dahl was trained at Camp X which is only a couple kilometres away from me. They trained secret agents there for WW2 but its been bulldozed since. I wonder if there is an underground base around here though that was maybe connected to the camp. There is a municipal airport landing military planes though for some strange reason.

  2. IF?…lol okay man you’re creeping me out now. Well reality is scary and dangerous. You can either stick your head in the sand or face things.

  3. Very interesting, Jason.
    A tiny, tiny correction to the chart: it was Gerald Garner, not Gerard.
    Terri in Joburg

  4. Weird … I woke up this morning and heard this … “Where have you been my blue-eyed sun …” wafting into my bedroom. My wife singing it in the kitchen.

    Then I go to your blog and see the title of your post … !!! …. ??? … $$$

    Good to see Annie Besant on your chart of connections. She belongs there. She seemed to surround herself with men who had a taste for young boys … and had worked hard to put people to sleep with the “next messiah” garbage, via pronouncing Krishnamurti as such. Krishnamurti was “discovered” by one of Besant’s cohorts, C.W. Leadbeater, when K was a young boy, and they soon put him in the position of the next World Leader. The reports of Leadbeater sexually abusing Krishnamurti (while he taught him about the theosophical “hidden masters”) are well known and well documented.

    • Krishnamurti’s case is very strong evidence for the idea that these groups and agendas involve sexually using/abusing/”initiating/liberating” children to the end of “spiritual engineering.” Rather more problematically, he could, and maybe one day will, be cited as “proof” that it works. :/

      Freud’s view in the end was that he’d been wrong to dismiss the idea of widespread sexual abuse of children as being largely children’s “phantasies,” that in fact there was no evidence at all for any of the cases being fantasies, but that since it was as widespread as it was, it couldn’t possibly be harmful to the child (for otherwise the nation would be overrun by hysterics).

      I have wondered lately if the Jimmy Savile-iceberg reveal could be used in a similar way?

      Altho PIE was a long time ago and people keep referring to “the culture back then” as if things werr so different today, my impression is that the idea of child sexual ab/use being not overly damaging to children is becoming increasingly widespread – and why wouldn’t it if generations of sexually abused children are growing up in denial of what happened? A recent example was Richard Dawkins: https://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/atheist-writer-richard-dawkins-child-sex-abuse-scandals-over-hyped-article-1.1452198

  5. “… invited anyone who was interested to email me…”

    hey, i e-mailed you with a book rec! Some of us read you in various web locations. I’ve been meaning to send you another note, but while you sent a very prompt and nice ‘thank you’ you didn’t seem all that interested, i’m busy, etc. Wires are so easily crossed!

    It’s odd for me seeing this imagery. I’ve been working on a little ‘frock coat’ for around six months now***, and 3-4 months ago my husband bought a charming top hat which i’ve been plotting to wear with as soon as i get my coat done (the Goorim Magic Rabbit hat, natch! Where was it you said you’ve been headed?). A strange vibe to see these pictures with their corrupt, menacing vibe whilst innocently sewing my own version. Perhaps to bring a little light to this corner of the noosphere? One can hope, and do their best.

    Happy Day! Please give our best to the spouse and the cat! steph

    ***(Vogue 8876 in this rococo print denim: http://marcytilton.com/item.php?pid=12831&mark=stretch%20denim ).

    p.s. posting is hinky (most likely my slow connection), i apologize if this shows up more than once.

  6. Thanks Steph. I did look into the book, and it did look interesting, but it was too pricey! I rarely buy any books over $2 these days.

    As for the sewing, good and evil are inextricably stitched together in this world; I think what makes the difference is awareness and acceptance of that fact, as we continue to sew…

  7. hi jasun! re: $$$, oy! we got it for a buck or two at the local library annual ‘de-commissioned book sale’ a few years ago. I’d no idea it was so expensive, altho i’m not surprised as it’s very good.

    and – how i so agree. steph

  8. When I was a little kid, on Saturdays, my family would often make a trip in to town. For a while, I would always use some of my allowance to buy an ‘Aero’ chocolate bar. I wouldn’t eat it until we got home, at which point, for a while anyway, I had a whole little ritual involving getting either a glass of milk, or water, finding a spot in the house where no one would bug me, then slowly eating the bar, dunking it in the milk or water, and studying the wrapper. Aero’s were, at that time, made by Rowntree. I remember liking how the name sounded.

    Years later, after I moved on from the chocolate bar ritual, I remember looking at an Aero wrapper and seeing that it was now made by (or licensed by, whatever) Cadbury, or Nestle or whoever – it was all consolidated, being the point.

    • That this kind of ritualistic relationship with chocolate is quite common is indicated by the opening pages of Charlie & the Chocolate factory, Charlie’s fetishistic use of chocolate bar, which he makes last all year long. I have wondered recently if getting children addicted to sweets and then selling the same products to them as adults, aside from its obvious profit motive, isn’t at a deeper level a way to infantilize people, keep them stuck in an oral stage of development, dependent on the corporate teet, so to speak (and rather more literally than I’d ever have suspected, what with the dairy business at the heart of it!).

  9. Wells’ A Modern Utopia is set in a “parallel planet beyond Sirius,” a twin of Earth. This takes your story to the heart of the weirdness pretty darn quickly. Looking forward to reading more.

    • Yep, and hence the most obvious but also maybe biggest danger is getting pulled outward, by the allure of Big Weirdness, away from the real heart of the story, which is, for starters, a father’s inability to love his son,and vice versa.

        • Speaking of samurais; I typed this to a close cousin yesterday:

          The spiritual path is one of daily decrease, if ego death is the goal then spirituality comes down to ego suicide, not that we can ever really “do it” but the goal seems to be to really give up at the deepest level while the body still lives. I can’t tell the difference between that and despair anymore. Accepting defeat is the only honorable path for the ego, like the Samurai who commits hari kiri because the war is over and he has no place in the world anymore.

          • That’s really interesting in light of Wells, the Fabians, etc. Is the war over? Apparently not. Or at least the Samurai are doing their best to either prolong it or contain the news of its cessation.

            • The war is over the moment every last “man” refuses to fight?

              The war for each of us can only ever end with surrender, which (it seems) will never happen as long as we still believe it’s a war that can ever be won.

  10. Don’t mean to repeat; since I’ve been over the “ego” question before in reply to Jasun,

    I would never bother to try to kill the ego… It’s like digging up a mountain to kill a mouse… The “mind” will never succumb to throttling / self-murder; it’s too tricky.. And also those who would have us “kill our egos” , be sure they don’t kill their own.. lol… But anyway, stillness of the mind will cure a lot..

    . How could I take myself so seriously: to worry over my “ego” … Anyway, I think it’s a language barrier… ‘ Cause I’m “fruitlooping” ,, going around and around … and don’t seem to be making myself clear on the issue.. I think “killing the ego” is a McGuffin.

  11. Getting people to think they need to get “rid of ego” I believe is a psychological operation, just to mess with people.

    As far as the pedophilia and the Hindu saints: I know my own Guru was diddling little girls and it really destroyed our group/community, and destroyed what I dreamed could be… It opened him up to black-mail.. Maybe he was murdered over it, when the truth started to be brought out; to “save” the enterprise he had to be killed? dunno.

    He was my father, in a way.. His name even meant “father” – My own father and I had no rapport… My own father was unable to give me what I needed… And I joined the “Guru” father when I was 17.

    I think now of the “Guru” as a principle that works through nature. And not as a person at all. One of the last things he taught was “The Guru is one who destroys your illusions.. Even finally the illusion you have of the Guru” Which I guess was pretty savvy , given the context.

    There is also a connection / sync between my Guru and …. a lot of weird deep stuff I can’t go into , to the degree to which I could make it intelligible, right now.. I touched upon the highlights here: http://www.synchromysticismforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=30354#p30354 I just can’t believe the guys name is “Ass Ange” -with his background.

  12. (For more on Hindu Saints and alleged / or likely pedophilia see “Kali’s Child” by J. Kripal which analyzes life and sayings of Bengali holy man Ramakrishna. Kripal’s apparent thesis seemed suggestive, to the extreme, but not definitive – as I read it. )

  13. I believe JKripal felt there was child sexual abuse going on in the temple where Ramakrishna became attached, as a boy.. And that was part of the history of Ramakrishna and formative on his personality…

  14. Yeah, somehow tied up with it.. inextricably connected, I think is the implication.. Mostly because, I assume, Kripal believes the altered expanded state is a form of disassociation? I don’t know.. It’s been a while since I read it.

    Also, another Jeffrey, MASSON, discovered, by studying the letters of Freud (with Anna, Freud’s daughter, at the Freud archives) that the genesis of the eventual theory of “wish fulfillment” was originally that “hysterics” had been actually abused by their older male relatives…The book he wrote on this “The Assault on Truth” is a great book – and this research got Jeffery personally attacked, in the New Yorker magazine and elsewhere; and led to a long drawn out lawsuit which he eventually won. http://www.jeffreymasson.com/books/the-assault-on-truth.html = Apparently the original “seduction theory” was the hurtful truth..

  15. According to Masson research, Freud backed down from his original theory, basically knowing full well his patients were telling the truth and there was no “wish fantasy” [ lol]

    I enjoyed this video by Jake Kotze HURT /TRU{t]H which came out recently https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fk4Fsvk4o-Q
    It connects to my life both through the resonances of the films in it I have seen and which have meaning for me .. And also it seems to address : “Truth is not kind” but has a weird redemption feeling to it… I know Jake’s montage is an expression of the collective unconscious which surfaces in film.

  16. Kripal believes the altered expanded state is a form of disassociation?

    I think this is it exactly. I tried to address this with JKripal (which led to the crucialfictions material) but he just didn’t seem to get it, the idea that there might be a quasi-enlightenment state that had many of the characteristics of (what we have been told about) enlightenment but that wasn’t it. Obviously he, and we, is at a disadvantage since we can’t be sure that enlightenment even exists nor can we take anyone’s word for it. But that trauma can induce states of extreme dissociation that allow for a feeling of transcendence seems pretty certain, and that this isn’t healthy or balanced state to be in, likewise. So if Kripal wanted to argue that there was no such thing as enlightenment, only dissociation, that would be one thing. But he seems to argue that trauma-induced dissociation is similar to, or a means towards, enlightenment, and along with that enters the idea that trauma, including that which results from sexual exploitation (or “initiation” as those in favor of it might call it) is a viable means to transcend the ego….

    • More like “pseudo” enlightenment. It’s like ‘pseudo maturity’ exhibited by some abused children. It is compensation. And damagng the ego ie. trauma and abuse in childhood is not the same as transcending it. You have to develop an ego before you can transcend it.

  17. Reminds me of the Zen Masters, who beat and confuse their students [koan = brain stopper; “like chewing on ball bearings”] to bring them to “Satori” – a carrot which is dangled seemingly in an arbitrary manner… When the person is fully lobotomized, then they’ve got “Satori” ?

  18. I watched Devil’s Knots yesterday; the case about the West Memphis murders in the 90’s. After seeing I had to watch the Paradise Lost trilogy. Celebrities took notice of that documentary and supported the accused suspects. Especially Johnny Depp was fond of one of the charismatic, narcissistic kid whom dabbled in satanism. Some sites supposedly contain facts that were suppressed in the documentaries.

    I think this case kind of relates to your Hollywood, Pathology, Influence connection.

    Any thoughts?

    • weird; i replied to this when it was posted but it’s not here…

      I watched Devil’s Knot last night, liked it, nicely understated; I need to watch the doc, probably; the movie certainly suggests some sort of frame-up presumably covering up a more organized crime, tho the accused kids might have been involved also…

      What are your thoughts?

  19. Too weird of a case. The loose evidence can point strongly to anyone you point at. My gut instinct at first was that Damien Echols was behind it and his friends followed suit. Though, John Douglas the notorious profiler believes there’s no way the teens could have done it. http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2010/nov/07/profiler-convinced-innocence-west-memphis-three/

    The last scene in Devils Knot in which Reese Witherspoon explains her confusion echos my own as well.

    But evidence like this being left out? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKnGYZfuBBQ

    • I just watched West of Memphis. It presents a pretty much “open & shut” case against Terry Hobbs, stepfather of one of the child victims, and Hobbs is probably the best evidence against himself (he could be Kris Kirstofferson’s baby brother). But the film is heavily slanted and done as a counter-myth — glorifying the wronged innocents (while presenting a new object of loathing in Hobbs). & of course it has the secondary effect of placing ritual abuse once again squarely in the realm of “satanic panic” — hey presto, smoke without fire.

      Will watch the YT vid tomorrow…

  20. Have you followed the Elliot Rodger incident? He left behind a manifesto that is IMO worth reading for its psychological nuggets in what creates a pathology person.

  21. Part of the “satanic panic” was the result of the West Memphis town discovering that a person would actually cut and suck the penises of children in a ritualistic fashion, as those boys were accused of doing in that case, as most in that southern town believed that they did do (before the thought of snapping turtles came to anyone’s mind). No one would have ever believed , at the time (or even now), that the cutting and sucking of infant penises is an institutionalized and legalized ritual here in Amurica. Why is there no satanic panic now, godammit, now that we can see that rabbis can get away with this? Let’s stir up some satanic panic over them rabbis who still insist on doing this and over them people who actively work to give them legal rights to do so. I’m all for satanic panic , so long as it is aimed in the right direction … and is grounded in actual on-the-ground verifiable realities and not in some PIE the sky.

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