Too Skeptical for Skeptiko? Baffling Exchange with Alex Tsakiris, + New Prisoner of Infinity Videos

OK: are you ready to watch me burn yet another bridge to the mainstream?

In my recent interview with Bill Ramsey:

I described an exchange with Alex Tsakiris of Skeptiko. Here is that exchange, beginning March 5:

Alex,

my new book is  coming out at the end of the month: https://www.amazon.com/Prisoner-Infinity-Engineering-Psychology-Fragmentation/dp/1911597051/ref=asap_bc?ie=UTF8

If interested, let me know and I can send a PDF, or ask the publishers to send a hard copy.

Thanks,
Jasun Horsley

On March 6, 2018 7:18 AM, Alex Tsakiris wrote:

hey Jasun… big congrats on the book! pls send pdf. would love to have you on. much to talk about. lotta great points of synergy and a couple of skeptiko-ish points as well 🙂

Alex

On March 6, 2018 9:42 AM, Jasun wrote:

hi Alex

here it is

look forward to hearing more

J

On March 13, 2018 7:50 AM, Alex Tsakiris wrote:

what do you make of the latest round of controlled release:

how does this square with yr book?

A

On Tue, Mar 13, 2018 at 10:20 AM, Jasun wrote:

yikes

now all they need is for Jordan Peterson to start talking about UFO-mandalas!

J

On March 13, 2018 11:06 AM, Alex Tsakiris wrote:

I don’t understand yr position? are you suggesting there isn’t a nuts-and-bolts reality to this? or there is, but it’s different than it appears?

On March 13, 2018 11:56 AM, Jasun wrote:

yes I am sure there’s a nuts & bolts reality, as well as a metaphysical one, and a psychological one

the book deals primarily with the latter

the only aspect I flat out discount is an ET one; tho even there one has to leave the door a tiny bit ajar… But don’t we have to be suspicious of any belief that’s been so persistently, relentlessly, and insidiously pushed?

On March 13, 2018 12:20 PM, Alex Tsakiris wrote:

yes I am sure there’s a nuts & bolts reality, as well as a metaphysical one, and a psychological one

– couldn’t you say that about everything/anything in the physical world?

the only aspect I flat out discount is an ET one

– why? perhaps denying ET only makes sense in a pre-disclosure world (i.e. pre-NYT 12-17)

A

On March 13, 2018 12:41 PM, Jasun wrote:

at a pinch you could say bar stools have a psychological reality, I suppose; but aren’t there things that don’t have nuts & bolts reality that have the other sort?

– why? perhaps denying ET only makes sense in a pre-disclosure world (i.e. pre-NYT 12-17)

wait: disclosure happened already?

Is it ironic that some of the same people who profess not to trust our govt or military about anything, choose to believe them when it comes to UFO disclosure?

On March 13, 2018 4:14 PM, Alex Tsakiris wrote:

– disclosure just means disclosure… i.e. “they” have chosen to disclose what was previously hidden.

On March 13, 2018 5:21 PM, Jasun wrote:

can we know how much the ground they are unveiling was spiked by the same ones staking the claim?

J

No response

On April 20, 2018 11:29 AM, Jasun wrote:

Hi Alex

did you get a chance to look at the book yet?

Jasun

No response

On April 24, 2018 9:38 AM, Jasun wrote:

Alex,

your initial response: would love to have you on. much to talk about. lotta great points of synergy and a couple of skeptiko-ish points as well

this was followed by an exchange over a video you sent from the MSM about UAPs, to which I expressed some skeptical views, none of which should have come as a surprise to you if you had read the summary of my book.

My impression of that exchange, however, was that you found my skepticism somehow objectionable, following which you stopped answering my emails altogether.

Of course, this is generally sufficient to end a correspondence, albeit unpleasantly; but since this is of relevance to my own research, re: the pushing of specific narratives around UFOS (and the closing down of others), I want to check that I have read the signs right before including them in my database.

best,
Jasun

No response

On June 3, 2018 9:46 AM, Jasun wrote

hi Alex

still awaiting your response

No response so far.

I nipped over to Alex’s site today in order to send the link to Bill, and saw that his latest guest is Chris Knowles, with whom I also had a public disagreement some years back (we are on good terms now, though Chris still hasn’t agreed to do a Liminalist, though I have asked).

I guess my diplomatic skills still need some fine-tuning.

On the other hand, can you blame me for presuming that someone whose brand is “Skeptiko” would be open to a more skeptical approach to the UFO question? Apparently, what we have is yet another case of false advertising at work.

For those who don’t know, Alex’s mention of “NYT 12-17” refers to the New York Times article “Glowing Auras and ‘Black Money’: The Pentagon’s Mysterious U.F.O. Program“:

WASHINGTON — In the $600 billion annual Defense Department budgets, the $22 million spent on the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program was almost impossible to find.

Which was how the Pentagon wanted it.

For years, the program investigated reports of unidentified flying objects, according to Defense Department officials, interviews with program participants and records obtained by The New York Times. It was run by a military intelligence official, Luis Elizondo, on the fifth floor of the Pentagon’s C Ring, deep within the building’s maze.

….

The shadowy program — parts of it remain classified — began in 2007, and initially it was largely funded at the request of Harry Reid, the Nevada Democrat who was the Senate majority leader at the time and who has long had an interest in space phenomena. Most of the money went to an aerospace research company run by a billionaire entrepreneur and longtime friend of Mr. Reid’s, Robert Bigelow, who is currently working with NASA to produce expandable craft for humans to use in space.

On CBS’s “60 Minutes” in May, Mr. Bigelow said he was “absolutely convinced” that aliens exist and that U.F.O.s have visited Earth.

….
“We’re sort of in the position of what would happen if you gave Leonardo da Vinci a garage-door opener,” said Harold E. Puthoff, an engineer [and Uri Geller’s CIA handler] who has conducted research on extrasensory perception for the C.I.A. and later worked as a contractor for the program. “First of all, he’d try to figure out what is this plastic stuff. He wouldn’t know anything about the electromagnetic signals involved or its function.”
….

Mr. Elizondo has now joined Mr. Puthoff and another former Defense Department official, Christopher K. Mellon, who was a deputy assistant secretary of defense for intelligence, in a new commercial venture called To the Stars Academy of Arts and Science. They are speaking publicly about their efforts as their venture aims to raise money for research into U.F.O.s.

In the interview, Mr. Elizondo said he and his government colleagues had determined that the phenomena they had studied did not seem to originate from any country. “That fact is not something any government or institution should classify in order to keep secret from the people,” he said.

For his part, Mr. Reid said he did not know where the objects had come from. “If anyone says they have the answers now, they’re fooling themselves,” he said. “We do not know.”

But, he said, “we have to start someplace.”

So let’s start by trusting the CIA, the Defense Department, and Military Intelligence personnel (and Tom de Longe & Peter Levenda) to tell us the truth. After all, why would they lie?

***

And lastly, a couple more POI vids as I continue to swim against the rising current.

24 thoughts on “Too Skeptical for Skeptiko? Baffling Exchange with Alex Tsakiris, + New Prisoner of Infinity Videos

  1. Jasun,

    You have impeccable synchronistic, and of course, synchromystical timing, but this coincidence is so precise, it may also be synchro-karmic. You see, it is late afternoon here in Los Angeles, and about 120 miles away from me, in the Palm Desert, Peter Levenda is finishing up the second of his two presentations for the gathering called Contact in the Desert 2018. About 10 minutes ago, I discover your new posting here.

    http://contactinthedesert.com/peterlevenda/

    I copy the summary of his two talks:

    [1] Sunday Lecture 2:00 to 4:00 PM

    CONSPIRACY THEORIES &
    UFOLOGY: TOM DELONGE &
    THE “DEEP STATE” SCENARIO
    This will be a discussion of the current theories in Ufological circles that Tom DeLonge and the To The Stars Academy are agents of a “deep state” that wishes to manipulate Ufology, or expectations concerning UFOs, for the benefit of a secret cabal of government insiders. Recent discussions at MUFON suggesting that the disclosure event of December, 2017 in the New York Times and elsewhere represent a “false flag” operation designed to prepare the United States for martial law will be addressed as well. This will provide the groundwork for a look at the history of modern conspiracy theories and their relationship to Ufology and how Ufological circles are being manipulated by the theories themselves. Levenda is the author of a number of works on historical conspiracies and conspiracy theory, and is the co-author, with Tom DeLonge, of Sekret Machines: Gods, the first volume of a non-fiction trilogy.

    [2]. Sunday Workshop. 4:15 — 6:00 PM

    ALIENS & ANGELS?
    OCCULTISM & ALIEN CONTACT
    FROM DR. DEE TO JACK PARSONS
    Many observers of the UFO Phenomenon have suggested that aliens represent nothing less than demonic forces, and in some cases funding for UFO research has been withheld by persons in positions of authority because of this belief. In other cases, a different set of observers claims that aliens are benevolent forces — like angels — who want nothing less than friendship with human beings. What can we learn from the history of human contact with “alien” entities, described by occultists and magicians in many cultures around the world? What does the experience of the Elizabethan magician Dr John Dee — and the later experience of rocket scientist Jack Parsons — have to tell us about communication with aliens? Is it dangerous? How was it done?

  2. Jasun, Here is something you can send to Alex to answer his belief in the “nuts and bolts” “reality” of UFOs. You need to stress to him that the person making the statements I am about to quote you below is on Tom deLonge’s TTSA Science Team. I put in bold the sentence you need to confront Alex with. BAASS is Robert Bigelow’s company that received the govt largesse of $22 million from his senator Harry Reid.

    https://ufos-scientificresearch.blogspot.com/2018/05/dr-colm-kelleher-and-advanced-aerospace.html

    Statement from a senior manager of BAASS

    On 4 May 2018, a piece appeared on the LasVegasNow website titled “I-Team: Documents prove secret UFO studies based in Nevada” by George Knapp and Matt Adams. Embedded in the text was a link to a “Statement from a senior manager of BAASS.” The statement included:

    “The investigations by BAASS provided new lines of evidence showing that the UFO phenomenon was a lot more than nuts and bolts machines that interacted with military aircraft…The exclusive focus on nuts and bolts machines could be considered myopic and unproductive in solving the larger mystery of UFOs…”

    “…One of the major successes of BAASS was in adopting the novel approach of utilizing the human body as a readout system for dissecting interactions with the UFO phenomenon…The evidence was multiplying that the UFO phenomenon was capable of manipulating and distorting human perception and therefore eyewitness testimony of UFO activity was becoming increasingly untrustworthy…”

    “…The approach aimed to bypass UFO deception and manipulation of human perception by utilizing molecular forensics to decipher the biological consequences of the phenomenon…”

    Who was the author of this statement?

    Based on the language and content of the statement, it is a reasonable deduction that the author of the statement was Dr. Colm Kelleher.

  3. Actually, the sentence I need to highlight for you, Jasun, is this one

    “One of the major successes of BAASS was in adopting the novel approach of utilizing the human body as a readout system for dissecting interactions with the UFO phenomenon…The evidence was multiplying that the UFO phenomenon was capable of manipulating and distorting human perception and therefore eyewitness testimony of UFO activity was becoming increasingly untrustworthy…”

    Colm Kelleher is a bio-chemist, but he might as well be an alchemist, because what he states there is sure to make Charles Uptown smile and say; “See I told you so!”

    • for me the stand-out sentence were the surrounding ones:

      “One of the major successes of BAASS was in adopting the novel approach of utilizing the human body as a readout system for dissecting interactions with the UFO phenomenon… …The approach aimed to bypass UFO deception and manipulation of human perception by utilizing molecular forensics to decipher the biological consequences of the phenomenon…”

      I dont think I will be knocking on Tsakiris’ door no more.

      • Here is Alex interviewing Leslie Kane on the Grimerica podcast about her article and books. I can understand now why Alex thinks you’re an autardistic asshole oblivious to the obvious UFO disclosure happening now through Leslie’s article in the NYT last December and Tom deLonge’s To the Stars Academy of Arts and Sciences. Get woke, Brother Jasun, or you’ll be “left behind.” Yes it really does sound a lot like the Christian Rapture and you are going to suffer the Alien Tribulation here on woeful earth.

  4. “Manipulating and distorting human perception”…sounds like the 1942 Macy conference on Cerebral Inhibition where Cybernetics was first envisioned. If they were perhaps dreaming up rock and roll and the hippies in 1942 then what the fuck are they cooking up now with all this advanced gear? Spacecraft that jingle and jangle neurons? Instant initiation? It’s all about the mind control. Reading William Sargent’s Battle For The Mind…

    Taskiris is a phony just like Knowles. I’ve had the same problem with both of them. They claim to be independent researchers interested in the “consciousness” aspect of UFOology but they both push nut’s ‘n bolts- big time. They both support the Apollo missions. Any real researcher who thinks Apollo landed on the moon is an inside man at this point. Hmmmm….that would include Alex Jones. (Ditto for Darwinian evolution by random mutation) Knowles even thinks there was a separate secret space program that was scared off by aliens! It’s all so preposterous. Tsakiris and Knowles both seemed like the real deal for awhile. But they are both on the payroll it seems to me.

    • That is surprising about Knowles adhering to the ET narrative and rejecting the Mood doggie hoax theory; was it recent, because his interest has become progressively “darker” (more rooted) in the last year or two. Not that it is either/or.

      Knowles has much more gravitas and personal engagement than Tsakiris. He seems truly engaged with his material.

      Can you define “payroll”?

  5. I would say payroll is where someone is supporting you to push a viewpoint. I have no evidence for that. He is is for the middle forehead crowd of sorta intellectuals as opposed to Strieber – he is for the “need a good story with a plot” crowd. Knowles was doing three very iinvolved blog posts a week, claimed to have a real job, had a wife and a kid and also published a book, meanwhile keeping up with a lot of pop culture movie and TV bullshit so he could comment on how occulted it all was. Maybe he is a genius and is actually capable of so much output.

    But it was his support for Apollo and that he refused to engage in the material- it’s so clear that Apollo was staged. That was the biggest red flag. Such a great researcher uncovering hidden truths! He couldn’t do 5 minutes on the Apollo hoax. He refused and got very hostile when I pushed him. Tsakiris won’t go there either. Why?

    So it was a few years ago. It was very weird.

  6. Tsakiris pushing Dean Radin (who seems legit- but he just did a book on Freemasonry and Kabbalah (I think) and magick etc. saying they are backed up by his Psi science) (probably are!)- and who works for INS- Institute for Noetic Sciences that was founded by an Apollo astronaut who claims to have seen aliens while in flight to the moon (but no stars!). C’mon man!

    Exposing Apollo goes a long way to exposing the alien deception as you have so artfully done with Strieber. 50 years and still haven’t gone back or gotten even close.

    • What are the main sources you have for demonstrating the Apollo moon landing was a hoax?

      I have looked through this material before, and while many of the circumstantial arguments based on the politics and psychology of the event seemed plausible, the scientific arguments seemed weak and based on a lack of understanding of physics and astronomy.

      Not that this event appears to me to be without deception, but there can be many subtler explanations for that, rather than just that the whole thing was a fabrication.

      Therefore I think it would be a mistake to premise an understanding of the relationship between aerospace and mind control on speculative conclusions about this event. Not that that implies you are wrong of course, rather it is not possible for us to be sure.

  7. Hmmmm. So u r not into discussing the fake moon landings.

    The fake landings are The apotheosis-izing of science with a big S. The ultimate FU to nature and to the supposed but real limits of the material body. It Ties into all the social engineering since forever.

    As for you Martin, start at aulis.com and go from there using critical thinking skills and high school knowledge of the mechanical sciences and the history of technology. McGowan’s “Wagging The Moondoggie” is lots of fun. The post flight news conference with Neil and buzz and the thurd guy is astonishing. Enjoy. ask yourself why no return to the moon in 50 years.

    I could go on for pages. It’s become a complete absurdity these alleged moon landings. As preposterous as Darwinian random mutations creating Chartres cathedral or Ulysses the book not the musical. But I guess we are supposed to be discussing Jaysun’s career prospects instead.

    Try some other podcasts jaysun. Hang in there.

    Peace

    Ginko

    • not averse to it but not much to add; it’s been covered so extensively by others & is now part of the conspiracy folklore.

      either the whole thing was faked or a lot of effort has gone into making it seem like it was… maybe even both

      i’d check where CK is on it today; doesn’t he speak well of McGowan and his work?

    • I’m not sure a high school knowledge of the mechanical sciences is sufficient to interpret this material correctly.

      The website you mentioned and Dave McGowan are the sort of arguments I have looked at before and found unconvincing, as there seems to be a great deal of presupposition, and gaps in reasoning.

      As I said above, the suspicious behaviour of the astronauts implies they are concealing something, but what? There could many explanations for that, ranging from the mundane to the truly extraordinary.

  8. CK disavows McGowan, especially Laurel Canyon. CK thinks we went to the moon! ha ha ha- the great researcher won’t even discuss it -except to hint that we went with much more advanced equipment and got scared off by aliens! Tsakiris won’t discuss it! CK is on the payroll to promote aliens. Its everywhere! Why not CK! I’m beginning to suspect Tsakiris to! Levenda might be doing it because he is in OTO…they might be doing it because Crowley told them too. It’s all obvious and total bullshit. It won’t work- it’s fake mythology. Doomed to failure. The fake moon landings are the low hanging fruit. If you want to expose the fake aliens it seems important to me to expose the fake moon landings. Martin if that kind of reasoning fails you then please explain how they kept that aluminum box cooled for 40 hours in 250 degree heat with 1969 batteries? Huh? I have about 100 more similar questions and no one can answer them. Where is Buzz Aldrin’s magic suit? Why can’t we cross the dessert with that little instant air conditioning/heater he had. Because the minute you go in the shade- it’s minus 250 degrees on the moon.

    Yes Buzz and Neil and Michael are hiding something! They are lying! They claim to have not seen any stars! That’s what Michael Collins adds! None! no stars! But they saw aliens??? C’mon man!

  9. Jasun.

    Richard Dolan interviews Peter Levenda about To the Stars. Interesting back story to his involvement starting in late 2014 and how it came about.

    I link you to Jason Colavito’s review of the interview since he summarizes some parts of it. If you want to stick it to Tsakiris again, then broach the subject of these alleged alien “meta-material” alloys recovered from the Roswell crash which turn out to be industrial slag products.

    http://www.jasoncolavito.com/blog/richard-dolan-interviews-peter-levenda-about-nazis-to-the-stars-and-the-so-called-alien-metal-fragments

    • OK fuggeddaboud Tsakiris! Instead focus on Dolan because he is one of the speaker luminaries at the 2018 Architects of the New Paradigm Conference, whose theme this year is
      LIVING IN THE POST-DISCLOSURE WORLD:
      HUMANITTY AWAKENS TO THE ET PRESENCE

      This conference is for you, Jasun! At least crash it and give Dolan a piece of your mind about Levenda. Why? Because it’s taking place in VANCOUVER, BC, that’s why! And it’s this coming weekend.

      http://vancouver2018.anpconference.com

      • Hold on Jasun, fuggedddaboud Dolan! The guy you really need to see at this conference is a Canadian named Grant Cameron who could be called the “Jordan Peterson of UFOlogy!” Here is his podcast introduction to his conference theme.

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