Enlightenment Dialogues

I am too tired to give a proper update on the house project and bathroom odyssey just yet, so until I can get to it I will just post a few pictures, followed by some email excerpts from emails between Abe and myself (referred to in the last post) on the nature of enlightenment and its relationship to seeking & suffering.

house1

The House

DSCN0489

Left-over bits after all the plumbing was done

DSCN0490

The sub-floor of bathroom, with vapor barrier

DSCN0492

The tub, in place but not yet installed

 

Abe: I was listening again to some of your interviews from two years ago (Hidden Experience and Diet Soap) and couldn’t help but feel that you are already enlightened.

Jasun: Enlightenment is in the eye of the beholder? Not really; just a curiosity – if there’s one thing I know it’s that the quest isn’t over yet.

Is your view that it’s possible to be enlightened and not know it? It is just absurd enough to be credible (christian credo: I believe it because it is absurd), but what I know is that the splinter of discontentment still drives me, nags away; if the quest is anything it’s to get free of that; and as long as I still feel the desire to get free, then I know that I am not there yet – not “done”

Abe: The Sufis speak about three levels of confusion. The first level is, I don’t know what this is all about (existential angst). This is the confusion of the masses and there are all kinds of coping strategies like for example adhering to a religion. The second level is to become a Truth seeker and despair about the contradictory claims of the various religions and knowledge authorities. The third level of confusion the Sufi calls “the traceless desert”. The seeker, now a knower (sophos, arif, gnostic, jnani), “sees” that the quest is a never ending process of Self-disclosure, Self-discovery, Self-interpretation of Being Itself.

I think you are already there. Let’s take your interviews on the UFO phenomenon, especially the first one with Mike C. You brought him and the audience to a moment of complete silence, because you made them realize that the UFO phenomenon transcends the map, is the proverbial finger poking a hole in the map. Now, if we equate the map with being and the UFO with Being Itself, we have all we need: the UFO is not meant to be sought after as if it was an unknown being. The UFO is meant to make us aware of something other than (known or unknown) beings – Being Itself – which cannot be sought after as if it was another being, without that this search leads into the dead end street of futility, despair, and delusion.

You are already awake to the reality of Being Itself, the finger in the map. Being Itself is “nothing”, but it can reveal itself as something (a being), which at the same time, is its concealment. Not just the UFO phenomenon is trickery, everything is trickery! Meditation can help to realize one’s innate identity with Being Itself, Emptiness, Space, Nothingness, and at the same time come to terms with one’s humanity (being a particular being). You are both: Being Itself (Master, Guru, Lord) and a particular being (slave, disciple, devotee)! While one “is” always already Being Itself, the process of Self-disclosure as and to a particular being never ends and it can be reasoned that the degrees of (angelic) proximity and (demonic) distance are indefinite (but not necessarily linear!).

Jasun: I enjoyed hearing your response, and of course it’s flattering and encouraging. But if there’s one thing I know beyond all doubt it’s that I’m not enlightened.

Even within the context of my own prior experiences, it’s pretty clear to me; but added to those [enlightenment teacher] Dave O’s own accounts, and what I’ve been able to observe of him, is pretty persuasive to me (not that I don’t have doubts). Dave’s version is that he knew he was enlightened because he knew that his quest was over, for him personally. My guess he would allow that “Self-disclosure, Self-discovery, Self-interpretation of Being Itself” continue – it’s not as though he’s not still alive with curiosity and wonder for life; but that his own ceaseless drive to uncover, discover, etc, in order to feel complete, ended, and a different sort of drive took over (to serve that consciousness which had flooded out his old self).

Granted, I only have Dave’s word for that and my own limited understanding of it. But in the three Sufi stages you describe, I fit fairly well with the second (“a Truth seeker despair[ing] about the contradictory claims of the various religions and knowledge authorities”), definitely not the third, “one who knows.”

My days are filled with dissatisfaction, that’s the biggest and most obvious indication. If enlightenment could happen and yet my divine discontent continue, then how would enlightenment be enlightenment? To say it could happen and I wouldn’t know it, isn’t that the same as to say that it doesn’t exist?

What you’re describing, so far as my conveying something like an enlightened understanding, or affecting others with same, may have to do with something (Dave calls it the enlightenment transmission) that is able to communicate through me and at such times I may feel much closer to “it” (when I am able to convey “it” to others) than at other times; so if there’s a spectrum, then I am on it. I carry the virus but that doesn’t mean I am one with it.

My sense remains very clear that there is a final step that, once taken, can never be untaken and that heralds the end of one life and the beginning of another – to be born again, so to speak.

Of course I don’t know what I am talking about; which only proves I am right!

Abe: By the way, from a 3rd level this question doesn’t arise, because it is not so much from where somebody speaks as it is from where somebody receives. There is no harm in de-supposing the knower. I might not know what I am talking about. I might be a liar, or deluded, or whatever. But all this is sort of irrelevant, because there is the text! And the hermeneutical situation is you and the text! Not me and you, but you and the text, the instruction.

In “Initiation and Spiritual Realization”, Guenon in a brief chapter turns our attention to the doctrine of “upaguru”, an influence that triggers or elicits a spiritual or initiatic process, remarking that this function might manifest as another person, or present itself as a situation, circumstance, or even some object (Abe: a book, a text, an instruction). When arising as a person, it matters not if the person fulfilling the role, realizes what it is they are doing because “in reality the true cause is found in the very nature of the one upon whom the action is exercised”.

Jasun: upaguru is interesting, and seems true. However . . .

I should probably explain something: I am really not interested in spiritual ideology or people’s descriptions (unless I know them personally, as in your case); that I am involved with Dave and his group is testimony to how deeply impressed I have been by my experiences with them, because intellectually, rationally, I am increasingly averse to all to such “spiritual” pursuits. Life itself is enough without chasing after rainbows of transcendence.

I am interested in what Dave has to say about enlightenment because my time with him has convinced me that something’s going on there. I’m like someone in a restaurant who sees a really tasty-looking dish at another table and who points and says, “I want what he’s got!” I can see for myself Dave’s panache & aplomb, and I want some for myself, or better yet, to learn the recipe. But until I actually try it, I won’t ever know if it’s as good as it looks. (The Dave retreats are like getting sample bites, never so far the full meal deal.)

I’m really not interested in anything UG Krishnamurti has to say, however (re: your Youtube link), or the people in the other video (which I listened to in part) who sound like the same old spiritualized egos getting high on fantasy descriptions of hierarchical states of expanded consciousness, etc, etc.

One thing I got from Jed McKenna which rings true for me is that enlightenment has nothing at all with mystical states of consciousness. I think there are thousands, maybe millions, of people out there who have attained unusual states of consciousness, had visions and all the rest (with or without drugs); some of them have turned those experiences into something permanent and/or managed to persuade others they have something real to offer and made a career out of doing so.

But I don’t think this has anything to do with getting free of the ego or false self.

I think 999,999 times out of a million, it just means the person has gone from a common delusion to an uncommon, or less common, one.

I don’t know if Dave is an exception (some of the time I doubt it); I do know that he’s the closest I have come to finding an exception, and that meeting him has coincided roughly with the steady cessation of my interest in finding anyone else for a “mentor,” guide, or guru (or upaguru). So you could even say that that particular aspect of my quest, at least, has ended.

Abe: without arguing about definitions we can agree, I think, that you are very far advanced on the 2nd level of confusion. You have done a tremendous work of trying to reconcile contradictions; all it takes now to switch to the 3rd level of confusion – and that would be “a final step” as far as I am concerned – is “a seeing” – by a shift of focus! This is very difficult to explain: what has to happen is to become aware – and it can happen at any moment – of the WHY and HOW it is impossible to have an ultimate understanding about anything, and this is the ultimate understanding! But this is not so much done by thinking as it is done by stopping thought! – The “ceaseless drive to uncover” is doomed to run its course as soon as it becomes more interesting to you to find out how you understand, rather than understand anything in particular! The proof of the ultimate understanding shows in your ability to voluntarily stop these attempts [of understanding something in particular] midway; you just stop thinking and turn blank – from one second to another – and shift focus / awareness to the uncomfortable feelings / emotions driving the thought process. (Devotional music might help.) This burns them out.

I just would like to ask you to consider the possibility that you in fact got it.

As to the concept of upaguru. Everything can be an upaguru. This is how I very much approach things. Like these videos. It’s not about promoting this or that view, or this or that person, rather things can trigger something unexpected from the inside out (something in you becomes activated). This is very subtle. The videos were not meant to inform you about something [that you rightfully reject!], rather my hope was that it would trigger a perception, a seeing. This is the tricky part. This is why seeking [and teaching!] enlightenment can be such a frustrating endeavour. It is not about an information but about a perception, and there is no guaranteed way as to what triggers that perception.

It seems to me that you have all the right information, and made all the right conclusions; all it would take now is a little shift of attention to the attention itself. Even your rejection is spot on, if you could shift your focus away from the rejected objects [these (deluded) people, these (false) teachings], or even the desired objects [like Dave’s state] to the simple fact of you being [non-verbally] aware of yourself – this is the crossing of the threshold!

It is kind of unspectacular, and therefore not really what we want or value, and it seems that we have to suffer a lot before we are willing to do something as simple as letting go our attention from external and internal objects of desire and/or rejection and turning it (the attention) upon itself. Spiritually speaking, this is surrendering.

Jasun: What did I get?

I am still seeking for a state free from suffering and as long as I continue to seek it, I will continue to suffer. All my life I have aspired to some future time when I can be fully and finally in the present moment. Behold the irony (man)!

I relate to the notion that enlightenment is “a journey of zero distance,” that at any time the veil will fall aside, the false-self-illusion dissolve and reality be suddenly & forever, as it always has been, there, with nothing else competing for my attention.

BUT – I am always forced to reject this notion by the certainty that such a moment can only occur after years of self-processing (McKenna’s spiritual autolysis?), of slow and painstaking examination and exposure of the false-self-illusion to the light of (partial awareness) and the anguish it brings. It’s a veritable burning away of conditioning in the soul-fires of consciousness – the honesty to see the truth of one’s lies and the flexibility/stoicism not to flinch from that seeing until every last lie is done with.

I can’t reconcile the paradox of those two opposing perceptions; it seems like I have too much invested in both of them to fully “believe” in either one; yet both I know to be true…. Yet somehow the truth of each makes of the other a lie, and so neither is really much help!

Shift focus away from the rejected and the desired – the past and the future – and onto the non-existent Now which is all there ever is.

The Now that can be spoken of is not the true Now, but only the “treasured” Then.

Abe: Actually, our email exchange has helped me very much to make a reassessment of certain notions I held, but I find it very difficult to express them clearly. I’ll try.

My recommendation to you was BS. It was BS because there is actually nothing wrong with you. You might say, but I am suffering. Yes, but unfortunately there is no way out. This is the human condition. Freedom from suffering has nothing whatsoever to do with enlightenment, rather the opposite, “for in much wisdom is much grief; the more knowledge, the more suffering.” (Ecclesiastes 1:18)

As far as I am concerned, enlightenment is the deconstruction of the social-cultural enterprise. But of course this makes not happy, this breeds despair. There are various coping strategies available. All of them are of limited scope. Staying in the now is only one coping strategy, among many others.

Spiritually (metaphorically / poetically) speaking, despair is the emotion of the homelessness of the Divine essence. The Divine essence despairs within the seeker, the seeker’s despair is the Divine essence’s despair: it is not just that the seeker despairs because he cannot find the Divine essence, rather it is the Divine essence that despair within the seeker that It cannot be found!

Our correspondence reminded me of a secret cabbalistic teaching that is rather (un-) common sense: there is an irremovable veil between us and our happiness (redemption from suffering) and that is the physical nature of our life. Understanding the irremovability of the veil *is* enlightenment as “a journey of zero distance” (= from physical nature to the acknowledgment of physical nature):

 

24 thoughts on “Enlightenment Dialogues

  1. “…there is an irremovable veil between us and our happiness (redemption from suffering) and that is the physical nature of our life. Understanding the irremovability of the veil *is* enlightenment as “a journey of zero distance” (= from physical nature to the acknowledgment of physical nature):”

    I keep finding myself coming back to something similar, minus the conclusion/solution, and only in shitty times (so luckily/unluckily, not very often). I’ve been phrasing it something like: “We’re playing under the same rules and limitations as everything thing else that share this space. But for some unknown reason (what is the reason?!!) we have the capability to instantly imagine, whenever we want, a world with different rules and conditions (or no rules and conditions).

    But maybe that isn’t even right. Maybe some other life forms can do this too. But likely, we are the most skilled at it – and so, we are seemingly the least suited to be living here. What shit luck we have. Or, it’s not bad luck, but a scary opportunity.

    Abe, Jason, or anyone who knows: How far along down the line does this teaching pop up in Kabala? I know there are lots of different versions of Kabala, and I know one isn’t likely to get any sort of “gnosis” level understanding without first going through earlier steps, or earlier gnosis-grade understandings; but any idea how advanced the irremovable veil concept is?

    • for some unknown reason (what is the reason?!!) we have the capability to instantly imagine, whenever we want, a world with different rules and conditions (or no rules and conditions).

      What would a world with no conditions be like?

      Imagination has been central to approaching the renovations with the house, probably much more than would usually be the case because of my lack of knowledge or skills. Essentially I have studied the problem (rotten floor, say, or plumbing pipes that don’t go where I need them to) and then imagined a way to solve it, followed by trial & error (& advice from people more knowledgeable and experienced than me). Another way of describing this would be to say I’ve been winging it, or flying by the seat of my pants. Point is, there’s a very solid, survival-based (& evolutionary) basis for our capacity to imagine different “structures” and strategies; applied sensibly, dissatisfaction can lead to action that allows for greater satisfaction. The catch is, I suppose, that imagining different/better options becomes habitual and compulsory and we get addicted to dissatisfaction. The solution would be to take an “evolutionary” perspective and enjoy the discovery of new strategies & structures (the actions that we are compelled to by our dissatisfaction) for its own sake, rather than as a mean to achieve satisfaction (which, like the orgasm, is probably just a trick of consciousness to keep itself expanding into unknown areas of experience — being fruitful & multiplying).

      In my case, while the ostensible goal is to build a bathroom, which I trust will be the reward for all my labors (which are truly grueling), there’s a subtler & more lasting reward (since if & when I do build a bathroom, it won’t take long before I forget about it and look for another problem): a deepening/expanding of awareness that comes from discovering new resources within myself which I hadn’t known were there before — or at least hadn’t bothered to engage with. Like those bathroom tubes & pipes which I will now forever be intimately acquainted with — as without so within. 🙂

  2. Yes, it’s necessary to renounce the idea of renunciation. Really, really quickly, while you still have the capacity to renounce, and relinquish all attachment to the belief that attachment is wrong (since it’s wrong!).

    Fuck it, let’s just be born again and let Jesus do the work.

  3. My days are filled with dissatisfaction, that’s the biggest and most obvious indication. If enlightenment could happen and yet my divine discontent continue, then how would enlightenment be enlightenment? To say it could happen and I wouldn’t know it, isn’t that the same as to say that it doesn’t exist?

    Depressing paragraph. Do you believe your traumas interfere with your potential of reaching enlightenment?

    I’m going to read The Dharma Bums and see where it leads me, if it doesn’t affect me then I am putting spiritual content back on the shelf for a while.

  4. Yes is the short answer to the question – in all cases. Ironic what with all the enlightenment through trauma PR from Kripal, Strieber, et al. Maybe something like the Spanish expression: usar un clavo para sacar un clavo” (using a nail to take out a nail – usually refers to rebound sex).

    Was that a joke about Dharma Bums? I have never read but then nor would I. Was Kerouac a spiritual authority or just a tourist? Reading DB to test your spiritual aptitude seems like trying to become a lawyer by reading John Grisham (who I also have never read, but then, nor would I).

  5. So trauma may be the inhibitor of enlightenment?

    “Reading DB to test your spiritual aptitude seems like trying to become a lawyer by reading John Grisham”

    Funny comparison. Kerouac will be my last straw.

  6. “Yes, it’s necessary to renounce the idea of renunciation. Really, really quickly, while you still have the capacity to renounce, and relinquish all attachment to the belief that attachment is wrong (since it’s wrong!).”

    I had a friend once who was driven to distraction and discomfort over the notion of infinity… He couldn’t wrap his mind around it, and if he tried, his mind kept spinning and spinning.. and he felt he was going to die.

    Maybe you should just have someone hypnotize you that you are Enlightened….

    As far as the suffering. I am sorry you are suffering. But, IMO, that is separate from the alleged “lack of Enlightenment” issue.

    You may associate your suffering with a lack of Enlightenment… but that is only “what you think” , it may not be the reason.. You may not know the reason, and so it is comforting to make up a reason.

  7. The whole notion of “different levels” of secret knowledge, keep one tagged-along with controllers – those who are said to “have that” which you want… It’s a control maneuver. Keep you panting at the edge of the table for crumbs. Or to get your “brownie points” or ” accomplishment badges.” And then you can move up the ladder to the eventual “top level ” lol

    Even if it’s your “SuperEgo” dealing it out..

    . I was taught by my mother never to play that game. We don’t play emotional blackmail .And we don’t play those kind of games; especially with ourselves.

    The knowledge is right there. It ‘s not a secret , except that it’s right in front of everyone , but they can’t or won’t see it… It’s “hidden” in total plain sight.

    Just break through the barriers of conditioning, break the double bind, go for it.. That’s it.

    http://youtu.be/ULLbBaU3NDM – – http://vimeo.com/98810628

    But that’s not enough. People don’t believe it , if it is too simple.. They are used to and acclimated to suffering, denial, and “grading”

    (If someone used the word “love” to much , I reach for my wallet and start to pray.). But this above linked , by performer Matthew Silver , was very moving for me.. I was crying and laughing at the same time , while watching. Sacred fool.is Matthew.

    • Pearl Vashuda Chanter. Agreed. Every point. As for performer Matthew Silver, he recalls to my mind the great and perhaps under recognized for his entre into mad as not so dissconnected from sanity is in the absurd, comedian Professor Irwin Corey as well as Andy Kauffman.

  8. I think the house looks cute.

    I thought I’d try to lay out my own thoughts, sound out my opinions.

    My sense is there is a gradual process – intellectual understanding and experiential insight gradually seeping in to override old conditioning, creating a gradual shift of allegiance, a developing of a tendency of the attention or interest or desire to move away from the personal story in time to the appreciation of what is now, bathed in a sense of equanimity, and timelessness, whats seen is less of a physical reality and more of fantastically complex and beautiful picture, in which there is no others. The actions of the body, mind, emotions seem to happen more on their own as part of the entirety of the happening and there is lightness.

    Then it seems a fear or a dissatisfaction kicks in, an energetic contraction happens and your personal dramas are all real and important, compellingly real, and we’re anxious about acting in the right way, making the right decisions and usually feeling like we’re not doing well enough. But in my opinion this feeling, this mode of being can be more and more recognized and acts as a trigger, to waking us up out of the drama in time, back to what is now, more and more frequently and easily.

    But I think there has to be a genuine preference to be in the now, I think personal dramas whether positive or negative are addictive and familiar, habitual. So somehow there has to be a change in preference, nurtured by the new conditioning or understanding, creating a shift in allegiance away from the personal where the ego is prominent, torwards the impersonal now where the ego is attenuated and suffering lessens.

    • Thanks. Your description sounds nice (or cute?), & seems to come from experience. Then there’s that word “impersonal”…. Is preference a personal thing? If I nurture a preference for the impersonal, is that from a personal desire to escape pain or an impersonal desire (is there such a thing?) to embrace all aspects of experience, from personal to transcendental?

      Are preference and surrender mutually exclusive? It seems to me that whatever preference we have it won’t be for surrender. Surrender is the option no one “prefers”, which is what makes it surrender. Surrender is giving up preference, “knowledge of good & evil” – the basis for all preference.

      • I”d say preference is impersonal in that like thoughts and feelings, it arises on it’s own, out of my control. But for as long as I feel I can direct my attention toward that preference there is a delusion (?) of personal will which I think keeps enlightenment at a distance.

        But if the preference is consistently to be with what is, to as you say – ’embrace all aspects of experience, from personal to transcendental’ then what is wanted is what already is, so the preference is effectively a non-preference.

        So one’s deepest desire would be for all to be as it is – maybe surrender is to actively will rather than passively acquiesce to whatever happens.

  9. Isn’t giving up all preference recidivism – back to a zombie state? Why would giving up all preference be Enlightened?

    As I see it; there is no recipe: “Giving up preference” ?

    “Surrender” is a recipe.

    Also I think there are many people who love and adore surrender – it’s very easily done for some folks.. Giving up to something or someone else is preferred by some personalities. Following a Rule, does create an “Order” in life. [ I mean: look at S&M]

    “Obedience” is preferred by many people.

    Also, with the metaphor of Geology ; Alex is promoting gradualism.. There is also the “catastrophism” school in Geology in contrast to gradualism..

    As in “Enlightenment research” . there is the “get – it – in – one – moment – now ” / “grab it” / No Method Method.. (Which in my opinion is the highest method.. Called “Anupaya” in my tradition. There ‘s a whole scheme of techniques starting with Anupaya… You start with the hardest one and then if it doesn’t work go to the progressively coarser techniques.. I wrote about it the “The Sync Book” number 1 , under the pseudonym “Peg Carter”

    Wow. and the bathroom floor looks amazing.. Great job… I’ve got to do mine.. There’s an actual hole in my bathroom floor, to the Loft below, and crazy leaks / soft spots!… phst. See what “detachment” can do?

    I’ve found that how much work I can do depends on my emotional state. Sometimes I’m just down.. I could point to a reason, but I would only be guessing.. So I focus on health to bring myself back to balance where I can proceed with yoga practice etc.

    • I shouldn’t have said surrender is giving up preference, since that turns surrender into an act. Surrender isn’t an act. Surrender is complete acceptance. It seems desirable but maybe it’s not. For the fish to be in harmony with the water doesn’t entail total lack of resistance – then there would be no fish, only water.

      There is something essential in the interplay between fish and water, self and environment, that depends on some residual awareness of the distinction between the two. That would be the signal; surrender is not a recipe; it just means (I mean) the noise of ego approaching zero as the signal of the soul nears infinity. If it’s a spectrum then I presume there is a final “edge” in which there is only signal.

  10. “What would a world with no conditions be like?”

    Everyone but a tiny fraction would instantly blow themselves up. The survivors would be those who knew ahead of time that what you want is usually not what you actually want. These survivors would start repopulating the Earth. Or something. I’d certainly be dead.

    So imagination is our key tool then. Helps us adapt – grow. Though, if it was me designing a universe from scratch, I might try limiting the importance of: find food, stay warm, and all that. You’d think general life dissatisfaction would be enough to push people towards what’s most beneficial for them. But things are what they are I suppose. “I suppose”, I say. I haven’t accepted it yet, clearly. Maybe one day.

  11. That “I suppose” is interesting: it add no factual information at all, but communicates rather a mood, of surly resignation perhaps.

    A world with no conditions in the wider sense of the word would not be a world at all. It would be formless. I suppose.

  12. What I found in my intense “sadhana” days… the closer you get to that “edge” – the greater the inertia.. It’s like a asymptote. As you approach that axis , you keep approaching, (as is theorized is the case with a “black hole”) , And maybe never “enter” “reach it ” . Definitely elusive.

    Mostly, I believe [that is] because the [externalized] mind [in which we participate in this 4D reality] doesn’t truly know . In my system that “not knowing” is a contraction of a power, and itself is considered a power of the “Self” . (Actually lol. )

    Memories can be erased though, So; as this conversation started around the “Enlightened , but don’t know it” idea ….

    I remember the suggestion that everyone accesses that space / place – at all times; as a flicker or a short “fugue”, intermittent, in ordinary life..

    My Guru, Muktananda , once commented to an interviewer, while in his courtyard in Oakland CA – “Everyone around me is Enlightened” which , of course, shocked everyone in the “Sangha”… but was a typically provoking , shifting “twist” to how everyone [there at the time ] sees reality.. lol Funny, some people just thought he was being compassionate..

    Hope you are well.

  13. [4:20]

    “Here we are. We are fucking here, right? You are right here. So then there is no spiritual. Now what’s the problem? WHAT’S THE PROBLEM? “

  14. ABE in this dialogue between he and JASUN, is not really precise example of what came to mind to me for this COMMENT , far from it, but I’m careless. Moreover likely it does disservice to Jasun, I take liberties due friendship. I admit I am about half-way silly here, I apologize. Right now I’m looking for a special job description. The accurate term that is applied to a re-trainer, someone who tries to bring a clear head to someone brainwashed, who was once proper, but is not now clear about things, but it doesn’t come to mind. Someone who refigures a thinking process, for a young person usually, who is inducted into a cult, a MOONIE, or even Scientologist, at their own free will alright, be that as it may, but considered by a parent, dangerously brain washed. There are extreme, severe cults that remove vulnerable people open to radical paradigms of ‘faith’ and it’s healings, from society and it’s mainstream traditions, it’s oonditioning, religions. These abductors together with trained people, one in the same often, are hired to ‘talk down’ converts, new initiates, retrain them to see and think straight once again, renter mainstream society. They abduct and remove the ‘victim’ from the permanent or temporary encampment, the source of the considered bizarre ideology.

    Obviously all that is folderol, extraneous. The learned adventurer Jasun Horsley is no brain washed victim (although a type of personality combined with actual early environmental influences that implant and enervate displeasure with oneself might be considered factors causing incessant serach for the truth and release of onesefl from the traps that snare away an ego unable to find release from a worrisome ego layered in accumulated life misdirections smothering true self, whew) unduly influenced by a cult promulgating an idea that ENLIGHTENMENT is forever allusive regardless studious, scholarly pursuit, experential dues paid, acquisition of credible text and methods, and long search and try outs of multiple avenues that promise a final step leading to a real, moreover ‘felt’ Enlightenment and thus no longer stuck with the obsession to seek any longer to be free from his dilemma, the trap of an ego that won’t allow true Enlightenment. However, Enlightenment, admittedly allusive if possible, is more likely to be achieved to satisfiaction if certain levels of “confusion” are reached, Let ABE describe the situation:

    “The Sufis speak about three levels of confusion. The first level is, I don’t know what this is all about (existential angst). This is the confusion of the masses and there are all kinds of coping strategies like for example adhering to a religion. The second level is to become a Truth seeker and despair about the contradictory claims of the various religions and knowledge authorities. The third level of confusion the Sufi calls “the traceless desert”. The seeker, now a knower (sophos, arif, gnostic, jnani), “sees” that the quest is a never ending process of Self-disclosure, Self-discovery, Self-interpretation of Being Itself”.

    Alright, cut to the chase: As I understand it, ABE thinks it’s likely that Jasun is Enlightened but doesn’t know it. Jasun says no, he’d know if he was and he isn’t. He explains clearly, eloquently at length why. He does admit though that he identifies and is perhaps relative the second level. A Truth seeker who despairs about the contradictory claims of the various religions and knowledge authorities. My point: That ABE as ‘trainer’ was sort of talking down Jasun from a misconcepton that he was not Enlightened and that if he listened to him and his 3 levels of Sufi, which Jasun is most familiar with I believe, that he would understand that he is Enlightened at the 3rd level of confusion. To reiterate, “The third level of confusion the Sufi calls “the traceless desert”. The seeker, now a knower (sophos, arif, gnostic, jnani), “sees” that the quest is a never ending process of Self-disclosure, Self-discovery, Self-interpretation of Being Itself”. So that then, as I understand it, confusion is no more, the veil of confusion hiding the real self disappers, voila, Enligtenment. At which final stage Jasun knows he is not. That’s all I was really trying to convey. I think.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s