21 thoughts on ““Mercury with & without Wings”: First Part of Mother-Strangled Interview.

  1. I was waiting to listen to your rebuttal to the m.s. crew. When I first heard their podcasts I started thinking you were just plain nuts with the things they brought up but now I understand what you’re about better and have more respect for you after listening. I’ve always had an egotistical grudge with your thoughts on aliens as imaginal beings beyond good and evil and beyond our comprehension, so I guess I wanted to write you off as crazy like the m.s.’s to support my own beliefs.

    But we all have our own experiences and different points of view so who is to judge? I mean I see myself a good, sane person, although I am convinced that half the population is spiritually dead, that demons and aliens have infiltrated and manipulated our society in negative ways and I play death metal and scream my head off every other day. Most would call me nuts but I am not. My definition of insanity is simply: a person who harms another.

    I’ve always been fascinated and impressed by your work because of your boldness and willingness to ‘go there’. I get frustrated with egotistical and shallow people so it’s nice to see someone who tries to go beyond that. We need new and creative ways of thinking and being so it’s not a bad idea to experiment like you do. Though I think you can get carried away with your delusions of being the one (which is common programming given to abductees) and idolizing Johnny Goldenfingers. Things like that are easily laughable, but then again I’m sure a lot of people have secret childish fantasies they’d like to indulge in but are too afraid to do it. You on the other hand seem to try and follow those irrational impulses and explore them trying to explore what you’re made of, maybe attempting to tread a new path. I can relate to that. I think the true spiritual path involves an amount of irrational faith and boldness. I also admire your passion even if I don’t understand what you’re getting at sometimes.

    Another thing the stranglers pointed out was your seemingly bleak and cloudy personality. I thought that was a good point to indicate that you are maybe a little ungrounded with your head in the clouds, though you do suffer physical anguish and that is understandable. To be honest and blunt about it, I’ve always had an ‘issue’ or maybe I am emotionally triggered by your heavy despair and gloominess and wish you would lighten up. I probably shouldn’t judge though. That ‘issue’ of mine’s likely a shadow projection of myself disowning my own gloominess. I’ve had a rough life and related to your writings and podcasts through a sense of pain, frustration, passion, fascination with the strange, and spiritual ideals. One of the main things I don’t like about myself is this unhealed sense of dark feelings. So I’ve noticed in myself that I project that onto you, disowning it thinking that you are the negative crazy guy, though I am similar.

    I think spiritual awakening, or just basically becoming more aware of yourself and the world around you can easily encourage feelings of alienation and insanity, or schizophrenia (disconnection from the world around you). It also involves stepping outside of your comfort zone and moving beyond the personality. Kundalini awakening experiences are said to unhinge people.

    About the podcast, it seems like ‘Gefunden’ could succeed in academia and gather respect from other intellectuals by the sounds of it, though you would likely be laughed at. But who would I rather hang out with on a fishing trip? I’d have to say Jason. While Gefunden is intellectually precise and solid, Jason is more well-rounded as a person if you know what I mean.

    I’ve always wanted to understand the bigger picture in life and I’ve found that you need more than critical thinking skills i.e., you can’t just think with a hammer. You need self awareness, self control and self sacrifice and those are measurements of your own being. Our society does not reward those virtues nearly as much as intellectual capability. I like to think of a simple trinity of balance as a guide: physical, emotional and intellectual or in a more spiritual way: faith, love and discernment.

    Looking forward to the next part with the other guy, the one who is confident as hell and seems to Jason.

  2. I also wanted to mention something regarding your crazy fascination with JDR. While that can easily be used to discredit you, I think people should be more realistic. How many people have gotten into a crazy relationship? Have you ever been emotionally intoxicated so much that you disregard your better judgment and get carried away by a fantasy for another person and then later find yourself wallowing in misery trying to put the pieces together? Ever had a bad relationship experience? I have. Those are the kinds of questions you should ask yourself before you judge someone like the mother stranglers. Be real, don’t hide behind rationality and ego.

  3. I’ll leave terms like “post-individuation” to the hardcore Freud worshippers. There are those out there who believe themselves to be a part of a “post-individuation” crowd … that is for sure.

    In my experiential reality / worldview , there is no post-individuation. I enjoy too much what makes life live and want other to be able to experience that enjoyment as well.

    • what was the context and who said it?

      if there is such a thing as individuation then logically there is post-individuation. Something can only be defined by its limits and a process that doesn’t have an end is not a process.

      claims of having reached the end of that process are something else.

      • The term Gefunden actually used was “post-individuated state”. He spoke of it around the 19 minute mark.
        The reason I don’t bother with such a term is that I don’t believe a man can reach the post-individuated state until his mid eighties, at least. The pre-individuated state would be the state before one realizes that he even has a soul that is waiting to work with him, for him to work through … before he even has a desire to work with Soul. And the individuation process consciously begins when he does realize that he is involved in a cosmic process with psyche (living earth-awareness), and actively involves himself in the dynamics of that process. It will eventually lead to a “post-individuated state” (in his mid eighties, I believe) but for all practical purposes it is best not to worry about the young bucks under 84 years of age who talk about (with an air of authority) the post-individuated state. Not for me to worry about anway.

        Obviously , it is true that some do confuse the “pre-individuated state” with the “post-individuated state” but most don’t realize that it takes “deep elderhood” to even know what “post-individuation” means . I’m not even sure that Jung made it to the post-individuated state. I personally don’t think that he did reach it. He died around the age of 81. Joseph Campbell died at the age of 83, I think. So he didn’t make it to the post-individuated state either, in my opinion. “Deep elderhood” is 84 years old and older, in my worldview, and it is only at that time that a man can reach the post-individuated state. Perhaps its earlier for woman. I’m not sure.

        So anyway, in my worldview it is useless to listen to talk about the post-individuated state unless it is from a deep elder. I presume that most of us here, including Gefunden and yourself, Jasun, are in the middle of working through a lot of shit. I hear what you both have to say and use what I can , to the best of my ability , to use it for my own individuation process. Making it to 84 years old will have a lot to do with desiny and fate, no matter what I do to work with and through the pscyhe/Soul.

      • I have a correction to make regarding my previous post, after just looking something up. Carl Jung died when he was 85 years old, so I believe that he did make it to the post-individuated state, quite appropriately I think. This is as pleasing as punch to me. He did get to know (be an expression of) the post-individuated state and this makes perfect sense for a man as dedicated as he was to the individuation process for himself and to the sharing that this process is happening for us all once one (each of us) stops trying to, ever-once and for all , unhook oneself from the Matrix.

        • I can’t really relate to this idea of individuation sticking to a timeline.

          I guess I equate individuation with autonomy and authenticity, being fully centered in one’s body sense and “soul-landed” – more or less equivalent to “enlightenment” as used by Dave Oshana. This is something that can and even is meant to happen in adolescence, IMO, yet rarely happens at all, not even to those who live to 84.

          This other thing sounds like maturation. The idea that Jung or anyone attained some “elder” state simply by crossing a chronological line makes no sense to me.

          My feeling about Jung specifically is that he got side-tracked by mysticism, but it’s more of a feeling than a logical deduction. As for Campbell – his name pops up often in the context of “Changing Images” religio-engineering, so I regard his work with squinty eyes.

  4. Thank you for posting this Jasun. The title is perfect, I absolutely love it. Mercury must have wings, or he cannot function. His very essence is swiftly moving thought/energy/intellect. I do not wish to be unkind, but I truly have no idea what he was trying to convey in his dialogue. He seems rather like professor who is quite proud that he knows a lot, and is quite happy to expound on it, without ever really getting a point across. His Mercury is wingless:-) Your Mercury, on the other hand, moves quite graciously, and deftly. I came away with an idea that I can ponder (that free will is used to choose where we give our attention) and as usual with your interviews, just a general good feeling and places to take my own thoughts. At no point in the interview did I hear him explain or reference an idea using his own personal life experience as the means of explanation. Without grounding his ideas in what he himself knows, his words leave me quite unsatisfied. I look forward to part two!

  5. Some of my thoughts jotted down after the first convo (some of which changed after the second dialogue, so I hope these don;t seem overly harsh in light of that evolution)

    I felt throughout the talk as though Gefunden was following a script. I wondered if he had expected me, after the m-s audios about me, to be not merely on the defensive but on the counter-attack, and prepared himself accordingly? He also appeared to want to keep our dialogue firmly on theoretical, impersonal ground.

    Normally in a dialogue, it’s possible to cut someone off mid-sentence without it seeming like an intrusion. One has a sense of the rhythms of conversation and when a person is ready to give over, or when they are running out of steam, seeking clarification, or leading into a question. A true Socratic dialogue allows for one to complete the other’s thoughts and anticipate questions or disagreements, and it naturally leads to some sort of resolution. Whenever Gefunden spoke, my impression was that he seemed to withdraw into an internal labyrinth of his mind, leaving me waiting outside for him to emerge again. He seemed present as a delivery man for certain ideas and arguments which he had pre-prepared.

    Abraham Maslow wrote, in The Psychology of Science, “I suppose it is tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail.”

    The intellect, like the sword, is a divisive tool. As a result, its natural tendency is to treat everything as divisible.

    But not everything is a nail, and not everything is divisible.

    Gefunden argued that there is a clear dividing line between subjective reality, inter-subjective reality, and objective reality. My own sense is that there is neither a clear line nor any way to draw one between such subsets of reality, because they are arbitrary categories of the intellect itself. There is only reality. The thing that can be done, perhaps, and what the intellect is useful for, is separating reality from illusion, truth from delusion. Such a process begins and ends with the self, however (in my opinion).

  6. I was laying down in bed reading a book by Eric Hoffer and came across this aphorism which seems appropriate to post.

    “Words have ruined more souls than any devil’s agency. It is strange that the word, which is a chief ingredient of human uniqueness, should also be a chief instrument of dehumanization. The realm of magic is the realm of the invisible and the domain of the word.”

  7. Well, Neil Kramer has mastered oratorship. I’d rather Aquila Ka Hecate left a time stamp for the segment he addressed out of convenience.

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